The tone of Innociv's speech does sound like the thread only exists to attract attention and flames. He could have criticized Returning Armada, long-range frigates, colonization, carriers, heavy cruisers, and shield mitigation in a more intelligent manner(apart from a bunch of 'that sucks' one-liners), but it is true that spamming of any one type of unit is not much of a strategy.



The concept behind LRM spam is not in the same context as your idea of spending those resources in linear research. LRM spam is an early-game tactic to harass the enemy, stunt their progress, and make them invest resources in niche counters to stop your blitzkrieg. Another thing is that techno-turtling is vulnerable to tech rushes by your opponent and harassment against you(resources invested in research = weaker defensive fleet), and the TEC's advanced warships are kind of lousy in comparison with their Advent/Vasari counterparts.

I used to agree with people that I thought the game was unbalanced, and then finally i had the opportunity of playing against a team of pros that was able to dominate my LRM spam, and my teammate who had RA

try not to believe in the people that tell you the game is unbalanced, and that there are uber strategies to win the game.

innociv is correct, there are counters for everything in this game

also, it has already been shown how to counter RA. see the below forum for the discussion on how its done, along with an amazing replay of basically 2 advent players beating 3 players with RA:
here

having some of each unit, and balance, support ships, is the most solid way of playing. thats how the game is intended, and thats how the game actually works.

You haven't played enough if you think flaks are only good against lrms and fighters.

Even against light frigs, which counter them they do alright.
Why? Because for almost the same cost they have double the hp/shields/armor and quadrupple the DPS.

Comparing armor and damage types alone isn't enough. All the units don't cost 400/50/25 with 1k hull, 500 shields, and 5 dps.

Killing lrms with flak doesn't leave you with unnessisary useless ships afterwards. It leaves you with ships that are a bitch to kill, and do decent enough damage ( 25% of 20dps is still 5 dps, the same dps a light frig does at 100%).

My point is there is no uber fleet combo. The best fleet/strategy is one that plays to your enemies weaknesses. How you play should depend on what the other person is doing, not what some list on a forum says or what one person used against you one game. That should go without saying, that's how it is in almost everyone RTS game, but nope "omg mass lrms is unstoppables nerf ironclad plz or i uninstalls!111".
Paint_it_Black is the first person to finally get this.
I had hoped people would reply in agreement and shed their insight on the matter, but it took what.. 17 posts for someone that understood how to play to post?


I win games because I constantly scout and see what my enemy is building both building and ship wise, hide my ships, and make what will steamroll him.

Oh and to clearify, by planets I meant PLANETS, not asteroids. I didn't think anyone would confuse that.


Oh and to the people that think I just play against AI, no. I've never played a single single player game or one with AI players online. I've only done multiplayer. I've already given you guys my ICO name.

Yep, this guy has it right. Play some people who know how to do a RA rush and not random first game RA rushers.



I don't need to say anything more to this, innociv. Usually, the first to cry noob or lrn2play is the one that needs the advice...

Okay. Who is an RA rush expert and wants to play then?

PeskyFly,

I have to diagree with your assesment. Firstly, their is only a perceived advantage with regard to the Advent/Vasari vs TEC advanced warships. IMO, the Kol is the best "overall" Cap ship in the game.

1. Kol armor is second only to Vasari Drednaught. With advanced armor research it becomes the most heavily fortified ship in the game.

2. It has a 360 degree firing arc allowing it to literally fly into the center of an enemy battle group and do heavy damage. Throw in a Cielo with DT and Akkan with targeting uplink to properly guide those guns.

3. It is the only Cap ship equipped to deal with Fighters and Bombers via Flak ability.

4. It has an adaptive shield ability which negates Vasari phase missle advantages.

5. It is not overly reliant on antimatter (which can be stolen/destroyed) nor does it rely on shield emitters like the Advent to protect it. Armor is the only thing in this game that cannot be compromised by any ability and the Kol ( and TEC in general)have it in spades.

6. Gotta love the Railgun. Again, employ Akkan and Cielo to direct this weapon to a ships most vulnerable area.

I don't techno-turtle as much as I rapidly improve what smaller forces that I have. If another player chooses to launch a preemptive strike with a mass of LRM's, then they better hope that they take me out otherwise they would have only succeeded in wasting resources that could have been put to better use, ie. linear research and economy building.

I probably have the strongest RA build.

Jinx and I will play you and a teammate of your choice, 2v2, online, tonight. Are you game?

i should be home in an hour from now. I need to find someone who can lay tonight, not a lot of people i know outside the game.

I have someone to play with tomorrow most likely.

If all guns on your flak ships are firing, your opponent isn't microing _at all_. When fighting against flaks, he should not spread out his fleet so that your flaks can shoot from all sides. Furthermore, light frigs are anti heavy. Thus, they deal ~13 dps (in the case of squirmishers, if my memory of their damage is correct). The final nail against flaks vs light frigs is that they can't effectively focus fire. They're just spraying all over the place so it's not super hard to micro units that are low on health and get them to safety.

You must remember this isn't Starcraft as well. Micro isn't as important (though it is useful) and with 100000000000 billion things going on at once, you may not have the time or simply the ability to get to them.

That's true, but we're discussing rush strategies. It's unlikely you'll face "100000000000 billion" flak ships during the rush stage.

Right. 13 DPS with 1140 combined hull/shield and please take note that light frigs have only a forward firing arc against 5 DPS and 1,425 combined hull/armor.
Also since sentinels have 175 hull more they're getting more from the hull upgrade.

Are light frigs better against flak? Yes, yes they are. Are they nearly as comparable light frig vs flak as flak vs lrm? nope. Flaks slaughter LRMS, light frigs BARELY out-kill flaks especially when you're microing.

Light frigs kill flaks 1.5:1 or 2.5:1 at best, depending on the micro. 40 Flak frigs(which cost less) than 40 LRMS will kill the lrms with just less than half a dozen ships if you micro them.
A big disadvantage of lrms is that you can't really micro them. They turn slow as hell, they only fire forwards.
Light frigs also only fire forwards aswell, however they turn and accel fast, and also move fast.

Not that flak are overpowered or anything, they're fine. All the ships are fine. This is one of the most well balanced games I've ever seen at launch/so early on.

Play me 1v1 with one of your awesome balanced strategies. I can get online anytime.

I won't even start off with a strong strat.

I'm pretty sure anything will beat you pretty easily.

make sure you post the reply, im sure from an almost scientific point of view we like evidence that there either is or is not an 'uber unbeatable' strategy

I've never lost a 1v1.

I don't think this game will be any different.