ARROGANCE, NERDRAGE, TL;DR POSTS, ETC & occasional helpfulness!

Well the game is rather.. messed up now.
This whole people accidently telling the enemy your plans because /a doesn't stick.
The lack of colors, you can't tell if someone said something to everyone or just you. While what you say will go "To allies: yada yada" everyone else just gets your name and text, so you have no idea if they accidently told that to the enemy or not, you have to ask if they ally chatted that.
Then there is the bad imbalance between races now from the new black market. The only time people play Vasari now is because they purposefully want to gimp themselves and know they'll win anyways, or because they haven't seen how much worse they are(which then the game starts and 20-30 minutes into it they say "my god vasari is horrible now..")

Are we going to have to wait until 1.04 to get these things fixed?.. 1.04 is supposed to have lots of new features and extras as I understand it, and thus it's not coming out next week or anything. Probly late next month, right? But can we wait and undure the game being so messed up until then in online play?..

I'm going to keep this simple without to many explainations so that it's not tl;dr:

Firstly.. Please bring back random amounts of extractors per planet like in the "Random Resources" setting in 1.02!

Black Market

  • How the Black Market works now is much better, but the prices are not. This whole tec and vasari imbalance is coming from cheap buy prices and even worse sell prices. The solution to this is simple.. adjust the Black Maret so buy pries tend to go higher and stay high, and sell prices be much higher too.
  • The 3:2 ratio was better than the one now
  • sellPrice 1.6(up from 0.8) buyPrice 2.4 would be good, IMO, and have booms happen twice as easy and the price go down slower after booms.

LRMS

TEC Jav LRM
  • 1.03 cost. 275/45/25
  • Supply increased to 6.(up from 4)
  • Reduce range (it's at.. 11000.. now.. With Akkan it's 13000 or so. It should be getting 11000 WITH akkan, so start at 9250 or so)so that it doesn't outrange Gaurdian's Repel skill and so many other abilities without having Akkan(that'd be buffing akkan if using it made javs outrange some abilities. Tactics, and such).

Advent Illum

  • 1.02 cost. 360/50/40 I believe it was
  • Supply increased to 7.(up from 6)
Vasari Assailant.
  • 1.02 cost. 360/55/35
  • Supply increased to 8.(up from 6)
All LRMS
  • Medium Damage Vs. Very Heavy increased to 100%(up from 75%, this is what heavy cruisers and buildings have now.
  • Building armor changed to a new "Building" armor type. Medium damage vs. buildings 50%(down from 75% it had on Very Heavy) All other damage types vs. this building would be the same as Very Heavy's.
  • Medium Damage Vs. Cap armor to 50%.(down from 75%) At starting at 11/13 DPS, half that is still good dps against a cap ship. Illums have anti-cap damage, so they'd do the same, but each beam of theirs is only 5.2DPS against caps versus the current 9.75 of assailants. 50% would bring assailants down to 6.5 for caps, much better.
  • In short, LRMS damage increased vs HC's, lowered against buildings and caps.
Light Frigates
Vasari Skirmisher
  • Hull Regen increased to 1.5(up from 1.0)
  • Damage increased to 13 DPS(up from 10.5)
  • Range increased to 4250(up from 3500)
  • Increase hull to 800(up from 700). Reduce shields to 340(Down from 440). [More effect from hull upgrades, more effect from healing abilities when hull is gotten to sooner. It's self repair would happen sooner with hull getting attacked sooner.)
  • OR reduce its supply to 6, increase DPS to 11, reduce cost to 360/60/0(down from 400/70/0).

Siege Frigates

  • 1.02 Cost or 30% increased DPS. (currently a siege cap costs LESS than 4 siege frigs, and the siege cap is as good as 6-8 siege frigs at bombarding planets, while obviously the siege cap is obviously much better at fighting too.)
  • 1.03 Survivability

Carriers.

Currently well.. http://dstuff.l2wh.com/images/soase.png This shows well what I mean. Fighters are ONLY better against LRM's and bombers. Besides killing LRM's, you use bombers. This is rather.. or very odd to me. It would also make sense to me that if you had enough bombers you could overwhelm flaks (heavy armor) but this isn't the case. You need something like 7 carriers with bombers for every flak to overwhelm them. So as long as someone has just one flak which costs 1/2 as much for every 5 carriers, your heavy cruisers are safe.
This wouldn't be too much of an issue, but HC+Flak is a very strong combination. Bombers are their only really counter, but you only need 1 flak per 5 bomber squads to stop them. You can't use light frigs to kill their flaks because their HC's eat them.

Increase bomber HP 50% higher.

Fighters do 1/4th the damage as bombers against everything but LRM's and scouts, basically. But with how low hp/shields/armor scouts are you might as well use bombers for those too as 8.22 vs 19.50 is good enough against them. This shows rather well how you should only use fighters vs. bombers and lrms. On the other dozen of the units, in any situation, use bombers.
NAME........DPS.....vs v-light...vs light...vs med...vs heavy...vs v-heavy...vs cap...vs bomber
FIGHTER.....9.75..........9.75......19.50.....2.44.......2.44.........2.44.....2.44........14.63
BOMBER......16.44.........8.22.......8.22.....8.22.......8.22........16.44....12.33.........1.64
  • I'd give fighters a new damage type to make them just as good against medium armor and heavy without buffing scouts.(even if fighters did 9dps vs. heavy armor, flaks kill them twice as fast, so it's effectively half. This new damage type should do 100% to medium, 100% heavy, over the 25% it does now, but the rest the same as AntiLight)
  • 100% chance (up from 75%) to hit Bombers with this new damage type, this balances out the HP increase for Bombers with fighters attacking them. (effectively 33% increased damage against them vs. their 50% hp increase should work fine)
Numbers if Fighters got a new damage type that was same as AntiLight but 100% vs medium and heavy.
NAME........DPS.....vs v-light...vs light...vs med...vs heavy...vs v-heavy...vs cap...vs bomber
FIGHTER.....9.75..........9.75......19.50.....9.75.......9.75.........2.44.....2.44........14.63
BOMBER......16.44.........8.22.......8.22.....8.22.......8.22........16.44....12.33.........1.64
HOWEVER you must take into acount while they'd do SLIGHTLY more than the 8.22dps bombers do vs these, that the flaks will kill fighters about twice as fast as bombers especially with bombers getting a bigger HP increase to better survive flak, so bombers are better in situations against flak always, vs heavy and medium it depends on whether there is flak or not.
Also since abilities do damage vs. fighter typically(cap abilities) fighters are more suceptable to these, more to take into account with their balance.

Support Cruisers
Vasari Subverter
  • Increase supply cost to 9-11(up from 5)
  • Increase cost to 450/130/110(up from 400/80/80)
  • Increase cooldown on it's aoe disable to 70(up from 60)
  • Decrease duration on it's aoe disable to 25(down from 30)
  • If that isn't enough maybe it needs AOE range reduced aswell..
Vasari Overseer
  • Have it's health buff no longer require facing the target or greatly increase turn rate.

Buildings
Refineries

  • Increase their effectiveness, I'm not exactly sure how much.
  • Reduce cost to 1500/75/100(down from 1500/125/175) for vasari/tec's of course.. advent shares it with trade port.

Capital Ships

  • Remove the XP sharing so that two caps doesn't make you get half xp.  Both caps should get the maximum xp.   There is nothing overpowerd at ALL about rushing a 2nd cap, or using more than 2 caps, so why penalize they're xp rate?  2 caps might become viable with this change and the lrm nerf.

Mostly just simple entity editing except the black market and text thing. :3

Edited to include something about AntiMedium damage type, and Vasari skirmisher as no one uses them, they are highly regarded as far to expensive/not good enough.

Edited in suggestion to buff Refineries


Comments (Page 8)
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on Mar 22, 2008
I think he means where: if you have autoplace on you can right-click the icon in the command panel to cancel a build order, but if you have autoplace off and right click the icon, it does cancel the build, but leaves the mouse pointer in the place-building state. You have to push escape to cancel out of it. (I've no idea what happens if you right click to cancel and then left click on the screen)
on Mar 22, 2008
Weird.

I've had autoplace on by accident and right clicking stopped them and i didn't notice any odd things, but i might be remembering wrong.
on Mar 23, 2008
I can probly agree with Culture, but I haven't played enough to notice the changes. Is it still max allegance change rate of 0.5?


Allegiance gains and losses (per second) from culture can go up to .7 now.
on Mar 24, 2008
So 100 seconds to drop from 70 to 0.

The only change I'd like the see to culture is 8 culture buildings not being so stupidly easy to stop.
on Apr 01, 2008

OK - Something I feel REALLY needs to be addressed - IN A LARGE WAY.

Why are the navigators aboard every ship so stupid? I have witnessed too many times when (1) A hostile ship is approaching my ship and my ship doesn't make any decision to turn until the hostile has already passed and is out of range, and (2) My ships, while firing on enemy ships, will stop moving when they get close enough to fire even though the hostile is still moving. They will remain stopped until the hostile is out of range and then slowly spool up their drives to catch back up. By the time they finally do get to the hostile, it has jumped or has joined other ships. I must say - WTF!

Also if my ship is perpendicular to a hostile, and the hostile is approaching, my ship will turn toward the hostile, even tho by the time my ship has made the turn, the hostile has already passed by my rear and I have to perform a 90 degree turn and then catch up to them. It seems to me that if the hostile isn't headed DIRECTLY to my ship, then perhaps my ship should ASSUME that the hostile is going to pass it and THEREFORE turn the opposite direction!!! Hell, toddlers have more intelligence than my ships.

Can we possibly get some more intelligent navigators at the helms?!! Perhaps there is a Navigation Academy plug-in I need so I can pull the little 3-year-olds out of the driver's seat and replace them with some type of thinkinahead computer navigation!!! I can warp space-time, but I can't turn to meet an enemy ship AS it passes me?!!

on Apr 01, 2008
Try setting the ship movement speed lower. The thing that seems to mess shit up for the AI is that while its top speed has a modifier applied when you change the 'ship speed' setting, the rotational speed of the ships is left unchanged.

It's really appalling to watch on 'fast', especially when your ships are chasing a ship that is trying to jump. When the target stops, half of the time your interceptors will overshoot ... and then half of those will start a huge lazy turn THE OTHER WAY AROUND from the target, doing a 190 degree turn rather than a 10 degree turn. Infuriating!
on Apr 02, 2008
Try setting the ship movement speed lower. The thing that seems to mess shit up for the AI is that while its top speed has a modifier applied when you change the 'ship speed' setting, the rotational speed of the ships is left unchanged. It's really appalling to watch on 'fast', especially when your ships are chasing a ship that is trying to jump. When the target stops, half of the time your interceptors will overshoot ... and then half of those will start a huge lazy turn THE OTHER WAY AROUND from the target, doing a 190 degree turn rather than a 10 degree turn. Infuriating!


Great, at this speed I'll never conquer the universe! MwaaAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!

All kidding aside, I really hope the admins are reading this thread. I will follow your suggestion, but this is definitely not a solution, only a work around.
on Apr 02, 2008
Joe, you're right the ai for movement needs to be greatly improved.

It's again, another reason, why micro definitely IS needed in this ship. If you just tell your cap to move somewhere, it'll die. You have to click 5 times a second to keep it moving smoothly along a specific path that keeps it from getting stuck on other ships.
And they won't use the z axis to go over/under a long line of ships automatically. THis is an issue imo.
on Apr 30, 2008
I agree completely. It's odd how sometimes a ship or strike craft can fly over or even through a planet, but it can't operate in the 3 dimensions that they seem to only utilize when it's not necessary. Specifically, when I need my ships to all jump at the same time. for some reason, they all arrive to the edge of the grav well, but they are constantly adjusting themselves, SEVERELY increasing jump time.

This game is good, but there are deficiencies that really need to be addressed.
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