ARROGANCE, NERDRAGE, TL;DR POSTS, ETC & occasional helpfulness!
   Oh god I'm so tired of my teamates going "I'm going to rush to RA".  As soon as they say that I know it's an unfair game, it's now becoming a 3vs2, 4vs3, 5vs4, or what have you.

   It's OKAY, "pretty good" even, on maps with multiple stars, but that's it.  Even in this case it's not the end-all-be-all, it's not a requirement, Vasari isn't "the RA race."

   Also LRM spam sucks(includes illums).
   Going after planets first is stupid, gg stalling your economy.
   Carrier spam sucks.
   Heavy Cruiser spam sucks.
   Advent with high mitigation and gaurdians isn't unstoppable.

   Only reason any of these "OMG UNBEATABLE STRATEGIES" appear to work is because you're playing against newbies.
 
Tecs super weapon is +8 civ and trade ports.
Vasari's super weapon is ore refineries, culture(not so much as advents), phase lanes, and phase missiles.
Advents super weapon is culture, mitigation, and synergies between abilities(mainly cap ones).

   Ta-ta lovelies, enjoy your game.

Comments (Page 1)
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on Mar 03, 2008
Speaking of which, what does the +8 civ upgrade do exactly? And what's so special about TEC trade ports?
on Mar 03, 2008
Because the TEC used to be just traders, they're trade ports = uber income.
on Mar 03, 2008
what does the 8+ civ upgrade do? Increase tax income?
on Mar 03, 2008
what does the 8+ civ upgrade do? Increase tax income?


tec get resources at a percentage of 20% of what all empires purchased and 15% of what all empires traded.
on Mar 03, 2008
Has anyone tried building 5-9 TEC trade ports at each planet, It got to insane levels of income when I tried it. I went from 50 cedits/sec to around 150 cedit/sec after fleet upkeep (Would have been almost 200/sec if I hadn't gotten fleet upkeep). And I only did that at a few planets, and I filled up the empty spots on my planets with trade ports.

Note, that most likly will not work in a real game, I was just curious, and decided to test it.
on Mar 04, 2008
what does the 8+ civ upgrade do? Increase tax income?


You get +8 logic spots per planet so you can build 2 more logics building (IE 2 more mil, 2 more civ, 2 more trade ports, 2 more ore refineries.)
It's too good frankly and should just be +4 IMO, but whatever.
Advent has a similar tech to get +4 tactical but.. yeah.. that's far from as useful, not worth researching.
on Mar 04, 2008
what does the 8+ civ upgrade do? Increase tax income?You get +8 logic spots per planet so you can build 2 more logics building (IE 2 more mil, 2 more civ, 2 more trade ports, 2 more ore refineries.)It's too good frankly and should just be +4 IMO, but whatever.Advent has a similar tech to get +4 tactical but.. yeah.. that's far from as useful, not worth researching.


Against the computer it rocks, but online, forget it.
on Mar 04, 2008
LOL

As much as you're trying to show your superiority by flat out saying the most imbalanced tech "sucks", you cannot be any more wrong on some of your points.

Clearly you have been playing with/against noobs and haven't seen how devastating a properly executed RA rush can be, even on single star maps. This is doubly true when your opponents need to beat through your teammates before they can get to you. The Vasari ultimate tech is indeed Dark Armada. Once someone gets it going, it's GG.

Well executed LRM spam isn't really counterable except for more lrm spam from the opposing side. OR you can get flak ships/carriers and hope your opponent is an idiot.

When LRM spam is done properly, it's impossible for advent to beat. Disciples are obviously a bad choice. Seekers, carriers, and defense vessels kill too slowly and LRM's can just bypass them and kill your cap ship/structures, forcing you to stay on the defensive. SMART lrm users will kill cap ships, then frig factory/research stations. They won't engage in a pointless battle with those other "supposedly lrm-counter" ships. You've probably experienced success by using flak to counter lrms. This is because the people you played against actually tried to kill your flak with their lrms instead of using them to kill specific targets.

In short, LRM's deal too much damage and nothing kills them fast enough for an equivalent cost. Further more, all the ships that are decent against LRM's suck versus pretty much any other target, whereas LRM's are great at killing light frigs, cap ships, turrets, etc etc.

I will agree that illums suck.
on Mar 04, 2008
RA does not suck. Players suck who take huge risks by "rushing" for it at the expense of their allies or their own security. If a you let a game drag on too long vs a Vasari, he will eventually get to RA. If a team of 3 elects to have 2 people play interference while the Vasari techs up, those two people might almost get knocked out, but the Vasari will be able to single handedly fight the opposing team at about 45 -60 minutes into the game. Especially on larger maps, this is not a sucky technology.

Don't get me wrong, RA's success is dependent on circumstances and it can be risky to implement sometimes. Once it is in full swing and you have started amassing forces it is just stupid overpowered. While it should obviously be powerful, it shouldn't be the Doomsday clock that it is currently.

In the meantime, keep killing those sucky Vasari who tech rush and don't build defenses.
on Mar 04, 2008
RA is extremely effective in ffa and probably too good, whereby most players will not risk devoting a small fleet (what you can get in the first 40-50 minutes) to eliminating a whole empire on one front and leaving all their other fronts completely open.

example
4 ffa, 2 players are vasari, 2 are not and a medium map. most players get 5-6 planets.
In this game even if 3 of the people all make a secret pact to take one vasari down, by time his down the other vasari could be close to getting RA (he didnt commit to really taking out the other vasari) and should be smart enough in knowing that his gonna be backstabbed first. If its an ffa whereby everyone plays nicely and no secret pacts..etc then usually none of the players will take a massive risk of leaving 2 of their 3 fronts open( most maps are like that for 4 ffa) to do a full on empire wiping attack in the first portion of the game and thus eventually (can be under 55 minutes with only 4 planets) one of the vasari will get to RA.

Theres many other factors, but in ffa, it can even depend on how well you smurf and get others to fight amongst themselves which buys you time delaying a significant strike.
on Mar 04, 2008
In short, LRM's deal too much damage and nothing kills them fast enough for an equivalent cost. Further more, all the ships that are decent against LRM's suck versus pretty much any other target, whereas LRM's are great at killing light frigs, cap ships, turrets, etc etc.I will agree that illums suck.


Agree; Even if you know your opponent is just massing LRMs there is no decent counter strategy other than massing LRMs yourself, flaks will survive in a fleet fight and will eventually kill their mass fleet but it takes way too long and they have to sit there letting you shoot them. Meanwhile he's doing way more damage to your capital which will force you to retreat it or have it die in which case it's game over.

The damage types just don't make any sense, there's too many for the amount of units that there are, if flaks are supposed to be a counter for LRMs then they should do 150% to light armour instead of 100% or what would make more sense is having LRMs counter heavier units and regular frigs counter LRMs. And can someone explain why anti-heavy units do less damage to capitals than anti-medium?

As it stands the game basically comes down to mass LRMs with a few flaks early game and mass heavy cruisers with support ships late game.

This is for 1v1/2v2 on 1 star maps, against anyone decent fast civ teching will get you killed very fast.
on Mar 04, 2008
Uhh why is +8 civ only good against the CPU? It allows you to build more trade ports/ore refineries, or frigate factories, on your best defended planets
I have a feelign you don't really understand what it does, like most people.
In short, LRM's deal too much damage and nothing kills them fast enough for an equivalent cost. Further more, all the ships that are decent against LRM's suck versus pretty much any other target, whereas LRM's are great at killing light frigs, cap ships, turrets, etc etc.I will agree that illums suck.


Keep telling yourself that. Enjoy never becoming a good player.

If you'd like to play some time, sounds good. My name is PrinceOfTheUniverse and I'm on about every night.

I've beaten countless people that just trying to these "OMG UNBEATABLE STRATEGIES" I guess people have heard about here on the forums or seen online. That's not how you play the game.


These last responses are sad. It's what I expected, people are so ignorant. You guys need to try playing against someone with 75+ games with these "omg unbeatable strategies".
But it's like I said, you're not going to become better if you realise how stupid those strategies are. If you don't understand why they fail, I'm sorry for you. I won't explain why they're bad, learn that on your own.

I'm not even going to comment on how stupid what you said about flaks needing to do more than 100% damage to LRM's to counter them is. Figure that out for yourself. I can explain but people will stay ignorant I'm sure.
on Mar 04, 2008
To innociv, good lord you are a twat. Actually say something instead of just crowing about how good of a player you aren't. Geez.

Anyway, I agree on the point about LRMs and Advent. LRMS force you to build defense vessels, which don't actually do anything. However I think carriers are fairly decent counters to LRM, as 4 fighters can kill an LRM in one pass.

Of course, if you go all fighters, again, you can't really do anything. You can counter LRMS strategically though, by building multiple frigate factories in different locations, and being aggressive. Split your fleets into harassment and defense components, and you can buy the time you need to advance.

A fleet full of bombers can hit and run better than LRMs, and do some damage before running away. Flak of course will cause pain, but again it's that Flak equation again- more flaks means less LRMs. You can engage on the 'hit and run' philosophy too, forcing him to attack you. Of course, this is just buying time so you can level up Malice/Radiance and then hammer him with some kind of crazy Guardian Destra combo.
on Mar 04, 2008
innociv must be the village idiot.

"_______ sucks" no that's just you kiddo.

Don't colonize new planets? Stall your economy... right.
Because 50000 credits does a lot of good with under 100 crystal and metal...

Your thread reeks of disdain. Learn how to play instead of getting raged and telling people that everything sucks.
on Mar 04, 2008
I agree with Innociv's evaluation of massed lrms. They are highly overrated. As a TEC player I rarely use more than 15 LRM's in any fleet that I build. They are just for a little long range fire support. The resources spent ammassing a large LRM fleet could be better spent fielding a heavily researched/high powered mixed fleet, that can take on any race. I put my cash into maxing out ballistics/lasers,armor,and increased Cap ship maneuvreability. One good way to beat massed anything in this game is to use the old Homeworld tactic of moving while attacking. Closing the firing distance between them and yourself also tends to remove their range advantage. I personally employ micro heavy cruisers (with "intercept") and flaks to close the range and pummel them while my robotics heal me and hurt them.

edit: I also add in 2-3 Cielo (designate target) in my small micro heavy cruiser fleet to direct all of those flak guns.
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